Master Branch Protection

[Vorspire]

In an effort to help us better manage the contribution process and validate new content as it is submitted, I have enabled the following features for ServUO's master repository branch.

Require pull request reviews before merging:
All commits must be made to a non-protected branch and submitted via a pull request with at least one approved review and no changes requested before it can be merged into master.

Require status checks to pass before merging:
Choose which status checks must pass before branches can be merged into master.
Commits must first be pushed to another branch, then merged or pushed directly to master after status checks have passed.

Require branches to be up to date before merging:
This ensures the branch has been tested with the latest code on master.

Please review this documentation if you would like to submit a pull request to ServUO. It will help make the process go as smooth as possible.

 

[Equinox]

So everybody in this list has enough time and experience to review any kind of contribution, right? Vorspire, Ravenwolfe, dmurphy22, Ultima-Lokai. If so, good then. I would like to see more contribution from this team in the meaning of bug fixes and new additions.

By the way, there is a hot fix PR in the repo which is waiting for more than 13 hours. https://github.com/ServUO/ServUO/pull/1835

Cheers...

 

[Tasanar]

@Equinox

You can always just apply the changes yourself. That is what I did for the hot fix with the banners.

 

[Equinox]

@Tasanar, thank you for your suggestion. I know what to do but it's not the main idea of my post.

 

[m309]

@Equinox, nobody here is paid to do what they are doing. The tone of your post isn't necessary.

The developers will get to pull requests, improvements and bug fixes: when they feel like it, when they have time, and/or when they want to. Not necessarily in that order.

As Tasanar suggested, if you need something implemented sooner - feel free to do so.

 

[Equinox]

@m309 , can you read and understand this?

So everybody in this list has enough time and experience to review any kind of contribution, right? If so, good then.

 

[Tasanar]

I think @m309 was referring to this statement -

Equinox - I would like to see more contribution from this team in the meaning of bug fixes and new additions.

 

[Equinox]

@Tasanar , kidding?

 

[Vorspire]

@Equinox
I don't intend to review any PR's until the latest slew of issues has been resolved, which means that PR's with bug fixes are priority over content.
Perhaps you could try to contribute something instead of taking up an entitled attitude towards the people who manage this project.

 

[Equinox]

The developers will get to pull requests, improvements and bug fixes: when they feel like it, when they have time, and/or when they want to.

@m309 , I was thinking about your words. If someone wants to do it, somehow will feel like it and will find a way to create time for it without thinking about to be paid or not. There are good examples like that. If someone doesn't feel like it and/or doesn't want it and/or doesn't have time for it and/or thinking about to be paid or not, what is the purpose/meaning of being an official developer of an open source project which depends on voluntarily contributions?

@Vorspire , It's your choice and didn't surprised me. Is there any management in this project? Sorry didn't aware of it, my mistake. Your attitude were awesome in your original post by the way

I don't know C#, I don't have development environment for it, I don't have development knowledge on ServUO. In this circumstances I've already sent a few commits to repo. They are not big or not important but I'm trying to help as much as I can in this situation. https://github.com/ServUO/ServUO/commits?author=bsenyuva
[doublepost=1488919142][/doublepost]It's good to see that you've changed your description and attitude a bit about reviews Hot fix PR reviewed and accepted at the end of 19 hours, congrats. https://github.com/ServUO/ServUO/pull/1835

 

[Vorspire]

It's good to see that you've changed your description and attitude a bit about reviews Hot fix PR reviewed and accepted at the end of 19 hours, congrats. https://github.com/ServUO/ServUO/pull/1835

I haven't changed my attitude about anything, I have always held the same opinion, unless you'd like to be more specific in pointing out what I changed?

The PR has not been accepted, it has been reviewed and is still waiting for merge.
I was able to check the changes to make sure they were not going to cause issues, the PR was a bug fix and therefore was a priority - nothing you've said has influenced my decision to approve that PR.

It is hard to tell if you are being sarcastic or facetious, so I am going to assume that English is not your first language and give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[m309]

It is hard to tell if you are being sarcastic or facetious, so I am going to assume that English is not your first language and give you the benefit of the doubt.

I've come to the same place.

 

[Equinox]

@Vorspire , your words were "I don't intend to review any PR's until the latest slew of issues has been resolved." while I'm writing my previous reply. Then you added ", which means that PR's with bug fixes are priority over content." part. I wish we are able to see edit history of your posts. I'm not trying to change your behavior or I didn't mean I've changed it. Why do you say that?

You are right, English is not my first language, but I think my words are enough to express my thoughts. Nope, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or facetious.

Let me try to explain with different words. I would like to see more active official developers in this project. Because Dexter is alone and needs help to solve bugs. I can understand that he is mainly responsible for his contributions but there are bugs can be solved by other official developers. For example, I was reported a bug about Lord Oaks, it's a very old mistake and can be solved by any experienced developer. I'm observing there are many official developers being online in forums but almost no one helping him. In my opinion, if someone have time to spend in forums or review PRs, he can solve bugs also. Am I wrong?

I'm supporting any effort in the name of doing things right, I've told already. Specially 3rd feature is very important. In addition as official developers or "management" whatever, you need to encourage new contributors to fix bugs or add content by being example and act as mentors. Not just as rulers. There is a positive motivation appeared recently with contributions of especially Dexter and Argalep. Please be supportive to keep it alive, help them.

 

[Vorspire]

That's a lot of advice coming from someone who's new to project management and C#...

I guess you don't realise that the "official" developers have their own projects, personally, I manage anywhere from 3 to 5 different projects at a given time, not including ServUO.

The "official" developers have contributed thousands of lines of code that you've obviously chosen to ignore and I disagree with the insinuation that it is being "ruled" so much as being directed or influenced.

If you don't agree with the process, that's tough, but ServUO has been left without "official" developers taking control because we wanted to give people the freedom to contribute.

I personally don't think you should come in here and start making assumptions and demands when you're clearly inexperienced, as you have admitted.

You have no right to tell people that they haven't acted as mentors or tried to help, because that's exactly what they are doing when they are on these forums, answering your support requests... They do not have to actively contribute to the code if they are helping on the forums.

Dexter is far from alone, he has just been the most active contributor recently.
I've been in his position before, where I was the only one actively contributing to ServUO and I had to step back because people relied on me to make everything happen. Maybe it's time for Dexter to take a break for the same reason...

 

[Dexter_Lexia]

Yea man, I admit I have fixed a few bugs in a timely manner, but don't let this spoil you! Real life can call at any time, which would greatly limit my time.

 

[m309]

Not only what Vorspire and Dexter have mentioned, but treating this like a job rather than a hobby causes almost instantaneous and severe burnout. It's happened to the majority of us in one way or another, more so to those who heavily develop the project/codebase.

 

[Equinox]

I've said I don't know C#, because I've got training about it but didn't used in a project. I didn't said I'm new to project management or software development. I'm working in software development sector for 17 years (mostly Java) and last 8 years in management roles. I now what is project management. It means planning tasks, cooperation and communication between members basically. I can't see a project plan, just a sentence "We will clear bugs first then add content". It's a motto. What are the goals for 2017? What will happen when Dexter gone for an uncertain time as he said? Who will be take the responsibility of solving bugs? So where is the project management?

I'm talking about what I see in the last 11 months. I think 11 months is not a short time to classified as new. I was reporting the bugs to our shard owner Argalep first. Than decided to report it directly to ServUO to parallelization of the solving process for speed up. There was many PRs waiting for a long time in the repo at the beginning. If you don't review/accept/reject contributions, what is the purpose of freedom to contribute? I saw Ravenwolfe was active for a little time but there was Dexter mostly and he did great. He reviewed PRs and accepted/rejected/guided them according to their situations and project gained a momentum. Argalep did great contributions also. I know Dexter was helping him about what to do or not in ServUO, was appreciating for good contributions. This is the meaning of mentoring. I'm not talking about answering "How to" questions in forum. Being an official developer requires more than that.

Everybody has their own projects, their own jobs and their own life. It's not an excuse, it's a reality. I'm not ignoring any old contributions. I wasn't asking "Why you are not contributing?", I was inviting the official devs to contribute more in my first post if they have time and experience to review any kind of contribution.

1. Dexter needs help. Maybe needs a backup.
2. You've added a new control layer to contributions. A hot fix from an official developer waited for 19 hours to be reviewed. Hmm.
3. It will be demotivate the people who want to contribute if you act as an elite group who just rules the project instead of supporting/motivating/mentoring/being example to new contributors.

This is what it seems as an outsider. Please accept it as an objective critique from a fan of ServUO project, not demands/judging of a new and inexperienced person who embraces just his assumptions. Maybe you and other official devs are not happy with my words but this is the reality of ServUO project.

 

[Vorspire]

You are lucky it only took 19 hours to review that PR because honestly, most of them are going to take longer in future. They will be review properly, not quickly. We want quality, not quantity.

While Arglep has contribute many PR he has also been extremely vague with his commit messages.
ServUO is at a point where it Is almost impossible to know who did what, because frankly if they can't be bothered to write descriptive commit messages and only write "fixes", then full expect that work to take days to review.

If these changes in the way thing are going to be done are unacceptable to you, then I do not know what to say other than, tough. If you feel you must be discouraged by this, then move on. I've laid down some standards to prevent the willy nilly submission of code that is breaking things and that all there is to it.

I extended an official ServUO organisation invite to Arglep last night.

QUALITY OVER QUANTITY

 

[Tasanar]

I like this approach. I remember when RunUO was testing factions for the first time. God it was slow but when it was released to the public it was one hell of a product. I think most of the community is on board with quality over quantity.

 

[dmurphy]

Project management has been an on the fly style for a long time. I watch how commits come in and how PR's are accepted and submitted and communicate with staff members directly when I believe possible issues may arise or work on fixing issues that may have already happened. What Vorspire has put into effect is basically what I was doing except public facing.

We of course welcome all PR requests and will give them the time they deserve, it will just not happen right away in most cases. A lot of things have not been done correctly at ServUO. From both the management and users. None of us are perfect like @Equinox has kindly pointed out. All we can do is review our procedures and learn from mistakes we have had in the past.

Going forward this new system of accepting PR's into the master repo will mean more stable code and a higher level of quality code for all. It's happening, just accept it.

Looking back at what has already been done is not the point of this, PR's were submitted with little information before, that's fine we didn't have guidelines then. But now that we do we would like contributors to adhere to them. It makes our lives a lot easier.

If anyone wants to talk about it they can post constructively here, or privately message me. I have trimmed off topic posts.