Did not cross my mind until last night... Using the latest UOP client, if I edit the initial UO distribution in any way and distribute it, is there a chance I will get in legal trouble for changing the original installation? custom maps, custom GUI Etc. example would be using something from DarkShard
- Thread starter Kamras
- Start date
Distribution of the client files in any form is illegal in most jurisdictions. It most certainly is in the US. Modifying the client in any form is a violation of the EULA, but there's not really much legal teeth in that. Distribution of patches that transform the original files to incorporate your changes is the cleanest way to go about it. But honestly I'd go the same route as all the other free shards and distributed a full client that's been zipped up.
Note: Not a lawyer, not legal advice.
Note: Not a lawyer, not legal advice.
I may not be 100% accurate, but I believe the only time a freeshard has come under legal pressure was when they emulated Lord of the Rings ( maps, etc), and that was by Tolkien's estate, Not OSI/Broadsword.
Up to now Electronic Arts Inc., and even Broadsword Entertainment, has been nice to allow free servers, RunUO, and its derivative server emulator repositories to keep open without fear of legal reprisals. The majority of the artwork we use, the file types we edit, and the client.exe are all copyright by Electronic Arts Inc., Broadsword Entertainment, under the:
Digital Millennium Copyright Act
Furthermore Electronic Arts Inc. and Broadsword Entertainment can, and have the ability to, go after anyone who distributes the server emulator and anyone who runs an Ultima Online emulating server using the artwork we use, the file types we edit, and the client.exe; just because they haven't yet, don't mistake their kindness for weakness. They have more of a legal footing than we do and could very well move in the same direction as Sony Entertainment Online and Blizzard Entertainment and shut us down. The only emulators that have gotten away with breaking US and International copyright laws are those in countries that do not recognize International and US copyright laws like Russia.
In the end no one on here really cares about copyright laws or we wouldn't be doing this. I know of one person we all benefited from who left the community because he was in jeopardy of potentially losing his job over the ambiguousness of the legalities that surround server emulators. As much fun as we're all having, this is a serious decision that could hit the majority of us in the pocket book if we push the issues. I have yet to understand why people argue this subject. It's been visited way too many times and people still don't get it. So read paragraph 5, section (d) of the Ultima Online Terms of Service Agreement...
On that note whether you decide to make a server or not isn't going to affect your standing in the eyes of the law. We may not get caught or even be prosecuted, but I think we all should just acknowledge and accept the fact that if Electronic Arts Inc. and/ or Broadsword Entertainment wanted to they could put our hobby to sleep permanently; at least in those countries that enforce US and International copyright laws. I know some bumble head is going to refute this, so all I have to say is good luck to them because in the end it doesn't matter. This is what it is; accept it or cry when the powers that be haul us all into court and force us to decide between a fine or imprisonment or both. Love you all
Digital Millennium Copyright Act
Furthermore Electronic Arts Inc. and Broadsword Entertainment can, and have the ability to, go after anyone who distributes the server emulator and anyone who runs an Ultima Online emulating server using the artwork we use, the file types we edit, and the client.exe; just because they haven't yet, don't mistake their kindness for weakness. They have more of a legal footing than we do and could very well move in the same direction as Sony Entertainment Online and Blizzard Entertainment and shut us down. The only emulators that have gotten away with breaking US and International copyright laws are those in countries that do not recognize International and US copyright laws like Russia.
In the end no one on here really cares about copyright laws or we wouldn't be doing this. I know of one person we all benefited from who left the community because he was in jeopardy of potentially losing his job over the ambiguousness of the legalities that surround server emulators. As much fun as we're all having, this is a serious decision that could hit the majority of us in the pocket book if we push the issues. I have yet to understand why people argue this subject. It's been visited way too many times and people still don't get it. So read paragraph 5, section (d) of the Ultima Online Terms of Service Agreement...
On that note whether you decide to make a server or not isn't going to affect your standing in the eyes of the law. We may not get caught or even be prosecuted, but I think we all should just acknowledge and accept the fact that if Electronic Arts Inc. and/ or Broadsword Entertainment wanted to they could put our hobby to sleep permanently; at least in those countries that enforce US and International copyright laws. I know some bumble head is going to refute this, so all I have to say is good luck to them because in the end it doesn't matter. This is what it is; accept it or cry when the powers that be haul us all into court and force us to decide between a fine or imprisonment or both. Love you all
I can't decide whether "yikes" or "zoinks" is more fitting.
So I guess Garriotts open letter inviting the community to make emulators or whatever is no longer valid then, huh?
So I guess Garriotts open letter inviting the community to make emulators or whatever is no longer valid then, huh?
Like gametec said believe whatever you wish, I certainly don't wish to waste too much time debating this,, but
Start with googling, Do promissory notes hold up in court..
Also, an agreement made between parties cannot be made void by transfer of ownership..
an agreement can only be made void when all parties involved give mutual consent to make such contract void..
As far as my opinion on server emulators..
As far as Broadsword or anyone else having legal rights over software 'server emulator' it would only apply if such emulator contained some form of copyrighted material within it.
Unless you have a link to something I can read that sets a different legal precedent ruled by a court, its what I will continue to believe.
Start with googling, Do promissory notes hold up in court..
Also, an agreement made between parties cannot be made void by transfer of ownership..
an agreement can only be made void when all parties involved give mutual consent to make such contract void..
As far as my opinion on server emulators..
As far as Broadsword or anyone else having legal rights over software 'server emulator' it would only apply if such emulator contained some form of copyrighted material within it.
Unless you have a link to something I can read that sets a different legal precedent ruled by a court, its what I will continue to believe.
Just wanna throw this in there.
EA and Broadsword definitely have knowledge that there are freeshards out there and that there's thousands of people playing on these freeshards.
I've even had email discussions with Messana (more pertaining toward them creating their own older era servers) and she acknowledged that there are "grey" shards as she called them.
If they were to do something, they would have done it during Ultima Online's prime. I cannot foresee for any reason why the company would go after freeshards now that the official UO is dying out.
Do they have legal grounds to shut a server down if they want to?
Probably.
EA and Broadsword definitely have knowledge that there are freeshards out there and that there's thousands of people playing on these freeshards.
I've even had email discussions with Messana (more pertaining toward them creating their own older era servers) and she acknowledged that there are "grey" shards as she called them.
If they were to do something, they would have done it during Ultima Online's prime. I cannot foresee for any reason why the company would go after freeshards now that the official UO is dying out.
Do they have legal grounds to shut a server down if they want to?
Probably.
Yes I'm quite sure they could. In most cases I would assume a letter of cease and desist would be all it would take, I doubt there are many free shards that would take the matter into a civil proceeding.. (or find a lawyer that would take the case, lol)
My comment only applied to the production or distribution of software or a 'server emulator' that doesn't contain copyrighted material and is a new 'work'.
Some interesting facts..
Copyright infringement is the use of works protected by copyright law without permission, infringing certain exclusive rights granted to the copyright holder, such as the right to reproduce, distribute, display or perform the protected work, or to make derivative works.
The Copyright Act expressly permits copies of a work to be made in some circumstances, even without the authorization of the copyright holder. In particular, "owners of copies" may make additional copies for archival purposes, "as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program", or for maintenance purposes.[3] Furthermore, "owners of copies" have the right to resell their copies, under the first sale doctrine and 17 U.S.C. § 109
In 1998, The United States Congress passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) which criminalizes evasion of copy protection (with certain exceptions)
In Galoob v. Nintendo, the 9th Circuit held that modification of copyright software for personal use was fair.
My comment only applied to the production or distribution of software or a 'server emulator' that doesn't contain copyrighted material and is a new 'work'.
Some interesting facts..
Copyright infringement is the use of works protected by copyright law without permission, infringing certain exclusive rights granted to the copyright holder, such as the right to reproduce, distribute, display or perform the protected work, or to make derivative works.
The Copyright Act expressly permits copies of a work to be made in some circumstances, even without the authorization of the copyright holder. In particular, "owners of copies" may make additional copies for archival purposes, "as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program", or for maintenance purposes.[3] Furthermore, "owners of copies" have the right to resell their copies, under the first sale doctrine and 17 U.S.C. § 109
In 1998, The United States Congress passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) which criminalizes evasion of copy protection (with certain exceptions)
In Galoob v. Nintendo, the 9th Circuit held that modification of copyright software for personal use was fair.
We are lucky that they allow us to function in the gray area that we do.
Good thing this isn't an Activision Blizzard game.
Daybreak the current name holder of everquest have even graced a emu server with positive official words. They are also in a very similar gray area that uo emu's are in.
There are definitely a lot more factors in this then just money. Image of the product is just one other big factor. Lots of legal reasonings...
This video is about WoW but Markee Dragon talks about some UO in it.
youtube.com/watch?v=2T6qlCp1SZc&t=4m35s
Do any of you know what servers/clients he is talking about? Replacing the artwork? Anyone?
I can make a lot of educated guesses but I'd like to know specifics if anyone knows based on what little information he gives.
I've been meaning to ask about this.
Good thing this isn't an Activision Blizzard game.
Daybreak the current name holder of everquest have even graced a emu server with positive official words. They are also in a very similar gray area that uo emu's are in.
There are definitely a lot more factors in this then just money. Image of the product is just one other big factor. Lots of legal reasonings...
This video is about WoW but Markee Dragon talks about some UO in it.
youtube.com/watch?v=2T6qlCp1SZc&t=4m35s
From_The_Video_Markee said:
Do any of you know what servers/clients he is talking about? Replacing the artwork? Anyone?
I can make a lot of educated guesses but I'd like to know specifics if anyone knows based on what little information he gives.
I've been meaning to ask about this.
Last edited:
I don't recall the name of it, or if it was even using the UO client....but there was a shard/game that was based on UO beta? I recall the player mobile animation had a visible back pack.
Anyway, it didn't look like modern or even Second Age UO. My guess is they would have had to completely wipe the existing art/animation/etc and replace it with the old stuff
I don't care if what I'm doing is considered gray area or not. Neither does anyone else here. I'm just pointing out my 2 cents on the obvious which is printed in black and white in the quote I added above and the links I provided. You also pointed out some links which would conclude the same thing. I think it's important people understand what they may be getting themselves into because there is a misconception among this community that it's perfectly okay to monopolize and make money off this game; ... and it's not.
The only way you can profit without possible legal issues is by changing the file extensions, creating a new client.exe that reads those file types, and recreating every single graphic in the game to something which isn't copyright; they fall under the same law which says any picture you take with a personal camera is the intellectual property of the camera owner; which means it's automatically copyright. In our case the graphics fall under that copyright and the games copyright if you want to get technical.
That said, I'm done... read what is written here in this thread, take in the differing thoughts, facts, and opinions, and come up with your own. This is a silly discussion because in the end whether we care or not, people are delusional if they think we aren't violating a copyright.
Agree to disagree
rofl... if you can't figure out what I'm trying to convey perhaps you should use a Magnifier program to make the words bigger. You might be able to read them more effectively Sorry Fraz couldn't resist. I don't know you, I like your scripts, but I think you're slightly off skewed; but we all are. Anyway have a great week
I can see your words they just don't make sense to me, sorry.
I've clarified a few times I am talking about making a unique 'work' such as a server emulator is not illegal.
Yet you keep telling me I said things I didn't say, and have nothing related to what I am talking about.
Here is your original statement, in case you forgot what you said.
Just want to make sure we 'agree to disagree' about the only statement I have made, not the ones you tell me I made.
I'm not sure what, 'have the ability to go after' is in that statement, I can only guess.. maybe a team of ninja's?
So yeah, I'm joking about it now, and ninjas just don't scare me I guess.
I've clarified a few times I am talking about making a unique 'work' such as a server emulator is not illegal.
Yet you keep telling me I said things I didn't say, and have nothing related to what I am talking about.
Here is your original statement, in case you forgot what you said.
Just want to make sure we 'agree to disagree' about the only statement I have made, not the ones you tell me I made.
I'm not sure what, 'have the ability to go after' is in that statement, I can only guess.. maybe a team of ninja's?
So yeah, I'm joking about it now, and ninjas just don't scare me I guess.
That was really all I said in response to anything you mentioned. I'm not insinuating anything... You have your way of thinking and I have mine. That's why I said agree to disagree... lol ...and I'm really not taking any of this seriously either, I just have more time on my hands than you do to refute things I see typed that I disagree with.... and ninjas I doubt will make an appearance, I think if issues are pushed we're more likely to see Balrogs. May the they have mercy on your soul.
I can only speak for my jurisdiction and from the legal counsel I have received in the past. What I personally am doing is not illegal in the eyes of the law. It is not illegal to reverse engineer any program for the sake of education (ServUO is an educational tool, we can not be held responsible for what our users do or do not use it for) or even commercial gain so long as you do not endeavour to use the information you learned from it to directly compete with the owner of the software you have reversed engineered. (I.e broadsword / EA).
I would also suggest those that may be afraid of the consequences to look into implied consent. Our project and others have been around so long now unimpeded in can be construed (Again, in my jurisdiction) that what we are doing is perfectly fine and accepted by the powers that be.
I will end this with a very important N.B I am not a law professional and do not offer any legal advice in any form, I just pass on information that I myself have received from my own counsel. I highly suggest if you are concerned about the legality of any of your own actions that you talk to a law professional in your own country as laws vary wildly across jurisdictions and even sometimes another's jurisdiction's law may apply to you depending on treaties.
I would also suggest those that may be afraid of the consequences to look into implied consent. Our project and others have been around so long now unimpeded in can be construed (Again, in my jurisdiction) that what we are doing is perfectly fine and accepted by the powers that be.
I will end this with a very important N.B I am not a law professional and do not offer any legal advice in any form, I just pass on information that I myself have received from my own counsel. I highly suggest if you are concerned about the legality of any of your own actions that you talk to a law professional in your own country as laws vary wildly across jurisdictions and even sometimes another's jurisdiction's law may apply to you depending on treaties.
The Ultima Online Facebook group is moderated by actual current and previous employees of EA.
That group is pretty much a catch-all for shard advert spam, but the admins allow it as long as each shard sticks to a single post.
No one seems to care at all and if they did, they'd issue you with a take-down notice first, which is just a simple threat.
If you receive one of those, then you can chose to stop what you're doing and you'll more than likely avoid further action.
That group is pretty much a catch-all for shard advert spam, but the admins allow it as long as each shard sticks to a single post.
No one seems to care at all and if they did, they'd issue you with a take-down notice first, which is just a simple threat.
If you receive one of those, then you can chose to stop what you're doing and you'll more than likely avoid further action.